Negativity.........

Ez peeps,
Time for a Fozzy rant........
I am finding it incresingly difficult to make music in/participate in/discuss or involve myself in .... the D+B scene at the moment.......
Mainly my annoyance is the whole production thing.....
Everyone seems to be a producer (no offence to anyone who wants to express and create thats the best thing anyone can do in life.....be creative) but it is when everyone thinks they are an amazing mastering engineer that knows it all and puts everyone's production down as a result, it gets a bit depressing. I have been producing for 5 years now and i would never say i know it all and I would never slag a song down because of its snare or kick or bass alone. It is a big learning curve.
Also everyone seems to have a "genre" they promote and puts all other "genres" down apart from Neuro Tech Step Wobble Funk Glitch......this is a very dangerous game and i think dividing any music to the point where people are arguing within the same scene is not a good look.......
I make a lot of different music and D+B is the only scene where the first opinions are negative.....in fact it is almost like a culture to be instantly negative and think of the first criticism you can when listening to/ dancing to/ making D+B.
It gets very disheartening to work soooo hard trying to learn and contribute to the scene in a healthy way only to have the wind kicked outta ya by the huge wave of negativity from all sides.......
I may just go an make funky house

Sorry if this is a mega rant but i had to get it out and I know you guys will understand (i defo won't be posting this on DOA or Banandrama hehehe)
(the sound of the worlds smallest violin playing just for me)

ur best bet in all honesty is to stop readin doa and banana arena.ive stopped readin doa alot and only really go on the grid.i dont give a shit what people think of my tunes.if u dont like what u hear,dont listen again.SIMPLE!theres only a handful of peoples opinions i take.half the time the person doesnt like that tune because the person above him in the thread has a high post count and says it isnt kool.
be individual,have ur own opinion peoples!
so yer......whats this thread about again?!?!?!

Bad Ace Inc said:

be individual,have ur own opinion peoples!

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Hehe.



There's an amazing amount of in your face negativity in this scene.

But you don't read slagging people off on DOA. Most of the pros I've met or read are amazingly positive. They must be to survive the crap and insults they're bombarded with.

As far as production is concerned - the scene is obsessed with production values and techniques. My feeling is that production is secondary to innovation. Goldie didn't know how to put Timeless together but he knew what it should sound like. Like I've said in the past, too little funk.

Point in case - ghettotech. Some of you peeps like it. Well it takes less time to put a GT track together than it takes to tweek a secondary effect in a dnb track. Another point in case - dubstep/grime. Much lower production values than dnb but people are digging it seriously.

Dnb stopped being jungle produced on Akais and moved into the professional production stage and then got wholloped by garage produced on Playstations. Not saying that this move cause the wholloping or that that garage is better (definitely not) but most (listeners) people don't frigging care about the prod value.

Once technique and refinement takes over innovation - the buzz is gone.

That said, some producers are (also) technically brilliant and that is an excellent thing k - say Photek, Remarc, you know who.

But you don't need to be Photek or spend a week on your kick drum to put together a funky ragga jump up track.

You just got to accept that you'll get haters. All the time they spend putting the world to rights should be spent making decent tunes.

There's loads of plus sides to the web, but loads of negatives. You get free promotion, it's good for networking, you can sell music with very low overheads and cut out the distribution, but you also get lots of people talking shit.

If I listened to a lot of the "advice" I've been given over the years on forums I wouldn't be releasing the music I'm making now. Only you know the music you want to make so just keep pushing!

I feel ya Fozzy, while I'm a hobbyist producer, it completely takes any ambitions I have to finish tunes when someone completely slates what you've spent days, weeks, or months creating in a matter minutes, and nine times out of ten it's because your 'snare doesn't cut through' or 'your bass isn't technical enough - more filters maybe?'.

Any way, I know what you mean mate, which is why I barely even attempt to make DnB these days. I know me not making DnB isn't a major loss to anyone or the scene, but it's just quite depressing when you can't even attempt to put something back into the scene you've spent a huge amount of time involved with.

That's my little rant over - it's also worth saying big up to any producer that CAN finish tunes and get them put out on a label, despite any criticism they've encountered, and knowing DnB, they've probably had their fair share!

maybe the reason many dnb heads are loving dubstep/grime so much is cause they can innovate and not be tied to increasingly finer refinements of their studio technique.
there's less 'rules' in place in these newer genres, but they still have a lot of the nasty goodness that jungle/dnb has.
I know what you mean about the negativity on the internet, Serum has hit the nail. I got drawn into this forum despite my dislike of forums over 3 years ago,
purely because dnbforum has resilience to the wank that goes on elsewhere. I guess you need a thick skin to take criticism as an artist, but it is far too easy for some loser who hasnt been to a rave in years to sit back and spend 15 minutes pulling apart your project, and then not give it a second thought once they log off. that shit is not constructive.

i totally agree and ill never fall for it again, get discouraged cos you play someone your tune and the only comment you get is that you need a 200hz notch on the snare cos the beats arent 'punchy' or whatever?? what about the tune? did you hear the tune?

like mesh said, you need thick skin as an artist.

alot of these cunts think that because they have been able to put a name to what youre doing they know all there is to know about it.
sort of 'so what youve made a 96 retro bassline with a dub synth and a full cycle-ish break' that sound is so played' type talk.

the list goes on and ill write some more on this later when the office has calmed down.

logikz said:

the list goes on and ill write some more on this later when the office has calmed down.

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were they that excited by your post?

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!

I am glad i am not a mad nutter alone in a paranoid world of critical notchers hehehehe
I do have a bloody thick skin (mainly because i am a stubborn bastard ) but it gets a bit much sometimes. I have been kinda lucky in how negative people have been about my tunes , in fact i have had a lot less shoot downs than others but i get just as annoyed for up an coming producers who just want to learn and they get shat on by so called "geniuses".
Cheers for your comments guys, i knew you'd understand!!!
I will never give up trying but i will give up caring so much.

crowd was in a frenzy mesh, but let me ask you a question, how come dutch women get so insanely large?
this manager round my office is 23 years old and she is nothing short of elephantine, she could easily pass for 45, mother of 7, if she had to.

in curacao we were amazed at the dutch women, we renamed the place to 'island of the giant mutant women', curacao is a dangerous place night time, cept if youre a dutch girl cos theyll fuck you up big time if you try any funny bizness

Start making breakbeat!!

The fact that so many people produce nowadays mean the scene has been flooded with similar stuff and so the bar has been raised with regard to making your stuff stand out.

However over-production is not the answer, it's just people trying to make themselves more important than the others because they know more jargon.

Bring back jungle values lol.

a) its not all about production

b)DOA is the most retarded website i've ever had the misfortune to read.

edwardsruss said:

a) its not all about production

b)DOA is the most retarded website i've ever had the misfortune to read.

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i dig ya tunes Fozzy

DJ_Small_Paul said:

i dig ya tunes Fozzy

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Cheers paul, we still gotta get together on one init.

Dj_Fozzybear said:

I make a lot of different music and D+B is the only scene where the first opinions are negative.....in fact it is almost like a culture to be instantly negative and think of the first criticism you can when listening to/ dancing to/ making D+B.

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Thats because DNB is the ONLY style of dance music that completely changes what it sounds like every 2-3 years. Other styles are consistant and you always know what your going to get. DNB is structured in a way that will make you hate it at some point down the line.

I'm also very much believeing that what a local DNB DJ "Timestretch" told me was actually true. That this music is run by a bunch of gangsters. He was talking about what are called the "top dogs" not the punters. I've got my own therory on this and I won't discuss it till I write a book or research paper.

(i defo won't be posting this on DOA hehehe)

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Its a good idea to avoid that place in general I think.

1992 said:

I'm also very much believeing that what a local DNB DJ "Timestretch" told me was actually true. That this music is run by a bunch of gangsters. He was talking about what are called the "top dogs" not the punters. I've got my own therory on this and I won't discuss it till I write a book or research paper

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There is an old boy network that has been around forever and they pretty much run tings.

But they have nothing to do with the internet mumma basement losers and rave head nodders who spread so much negativity on DOA on DNB Arena.